Yellow Dog 9wt Shootout Review of Fly Rods - A Meta Review of their Invitational Permit Course 9wt Rod Review
https://www.yellowdogflyfishing.com/blogs/yellow-dog-invitationals/yellow-dog-saltwater-invitational-9-weight-permit-course
*Article linked above is from Yellow Dog travel agency, written by Carter Lyles their marketing guy with extensive testing from three experts - all highly experienced casters. I have no affiliation with them, I am just offering my commentary as a "meta review" on this saltwater 9wt rod review since I have been writing fairly popular saltwater fly rod reviews for a long time. I like my readers to get other perspectives too, especially when they line up with exactly what I've been telling you this whole time. Note that I just did the same for their 8wt comparison review so a part of this one is the same as the previous one. But this time I have some different reactions to their rankings. Plus, get the popcorn guys, there's some major pain for previously leading rod brands, a big upset. Yikes. Bet that hurts. Not just me barbecuing them anymore. Announcer voice: "Now here comes Yellow Dog from the top rope with a steel chair!" Ouch.
Orvis really mopped the floor with other rod brands in both the 8wt shootout and now the 9wt shootout review as well.
Note that Hardy once again did extremely well in the rankings. Keep in mind my understanding is some of these reviewers personally use Hardy one-piece rods quite a bit in the Keys (not saying they would have bias but rather they would have a lot of practice and familiarity with these rods, so they can make them perform very well). Other reviewers in the past such as Trident have been a bit less excited about these rods, so that's interesting from my "meta review" perspective. I felt they were excellent with the right fly lines when I did my review of the Marksman Z, but the performance really varied among different fly lines.
The New 2026 Orvis Recon which I reviewed here clearly did very well. Take away every rod at $1,000 or more, and guess what, the new Recon is number one! So it's safe to say it's the best fly rod under $1,000 - At least if you have never cast a TFO... Where is TFO anyway? I made jokes about this last time they reviewed 8wt rods - You simply cannot have a serious "best reasonably priced saltwater fly rods" discussion without the TFO Blitz or the Moment. But the Recon is even nicer for a little more money than TFO, and still costs significantly less than the rods rated above it in this shootout. I think the new color is awesome as well. Way better than most rods on the market.
The Scott Sector once again maintains its relevance (and completely justifies me recommending it so highly ever since it came out). It's now the "old dog" in the reviews - G. Loomis suddenly remembered they still make the exact same Asquith a decade later, finally releasing an update earlier this year. The Sector remains a very solid choice and with lighter - some might say "correct" fly lines by grain weight - the Sector can still smoke almost any competitor. Cast one.
I would personally move up both the Winston and Thomas & Thomas rods into the top ten and lower the Redington and the G. Loomis IMX-PRO V2S a few spots. Ease of use is important and the T&T Sextant wins big in that regard, just a great looking and easy-to-cast fly rod that's good at everything. I sell tons of these in 9wt with almost zero returns, meaning happy customers. It also clearly wins on looks - don't argue with me I'm not listening. It's very nice.
The newest Asquith ($1,635 retail) placing fifth is fairly shocking honestly. How did it not beat their own NRX+S which is under $1,000?? I think that's the biggest "inversion" of expectations on this ranking. A long time ago I actually used to own the NRX+S in 7wt, 8wt, 9wt, 10wt, and 11wt personally, so I am aware they are very good. But still, I have never seen a flagship rod rated lower than the cheaper option, so I would have to say that I doubt this one and it's probably down to the fly line and the specific casters' preferences there. I will go try more fly lines with those, now I am curious.
*Going to have to go back to my older rod reviews and do a more in-depth test of different fly lines with some of these rods to see what I find. Usually the right line can "fix" rods or at least improve their performance. For example, I already know Thomas & Thomas is capable of more and in fact the 8wt did fine. I sell more of them in 9wt than anything, and again that's largely due to how easy it is for beginners to use well. Keep in mind these reviewers are all expert casters and their preferences aren't necessarily reflective of what you should be buying.
One key difference to note right off the bat: This time, their review has been done from a boat rather than wading. Makes total sense to me, I see very few people wade for Permit.
Orvis won again anyway, I am not surprised and I agree - True story, when the new Helios first came out and I got my hands on the new rods, they were so good - but one small problem, I wasn't actually even an Orvis dealer back then due to a territory overlap with another shop - SO I MOVED MY ENTIRE FLY SHOP JUST TO GET ORVIS. Specifically the Helios D. Yes, really. I have always put my money where my mouth is and backed up my assessments of gear. I wanted customers to have the best so I packed up and moved to a territory where I could sell the Helios. Guess I was ahead of the curve as usual. Nice to see this new review back up my major decision so well.
I want customers to have access to the best gear. It's always that simple.
Back to the meta review: They again used the same single fly line to test (in case you are new here, I always write my reviews using multiple popular fly lines). However, THIS TIME, unlike for the 8wt review, it's actually a much better fly line to test with so I don't really disagree with the choice here (and if I'm honest it's actually the fly line on my personal 9wt setup currently, though I still sell far more Grand Slam and think that line is a little easier for my customers). As I first explained in my review of the new SA Balance taper, the 30ft weight is actually the same as the most popular 9wt line taper, which of course is Scientific Anglers Grand Slam. So whether or not it was their intention, Balance taper is much better for testing 9wt rods than I feel it was for 8wt. At least up close. For distance there would start to be some differences but it's fine. Customers can't double haul anyway so there's little risk here. At the ranges they tested (30/50/70ft) only the farthest one would really start to matter in this regard. That's a distance at which I'd consider most fish "safe" from the typical fly fisherman. I would assume that Linville designed his fly line, the new Balance taper, with expert casters like himself and his friends in mind. Which is great, as I have said. Pros need fly lines too. But most customers will rightly gravitate toward Grand Slam if you let them cast both.
Customers can't double haul anyway so there's little risk here in terms of how much the longest shots will be affected by the fly line choice. I'd look mainly at the close and middle distance results.
My saltwater gear reviews are all about helping customers make good decisions. This is a great review series they clearly worked hard on and I agree with many of their conclusions (such as the Orvis Helios D winning - which I have personally owned since it first came out and also sell constantly as it's basically the best rod overall for the money). But I do think this review missed some very important things for customers so I will go into all of that. And I have to clarify one thing, since they act like nobody has ever done a saltwater review like this before "in saltwater." I might disagree since I have actually been doing these saltwater fly rod reviews for individual rods and also comparisons for many years - in the actual salt on the flats where they are designed to be used.
The approach was obviously meant to be somewhat scientific/consistent and unbiased which is great. Not sure a few of the manufacturers who constantly suck up to Yellow Dog are going to be thrilled with some of the conclusions though, oof... ouch. They really didn't do as well here in the hands of some world-renowned fly fishermen. Rankings like this will definitely shape how people buy fly rods this year. Between me and Yellow Dog's guys both saying the Orvis Helios D is excellent - Honestly, I'm not sure why the typical customers in this high-end segment would be inclined to buy anything else. These reviewers say they didn't want their review to exactly declare a winner, but I'm happy to do it for them. I think we can all see what their data indicates pretty clearly here. Orvis Helios D. The new Orvis Recon did great as well. Orvis clearly dominated this review. The brand new 2026 Sage Power R8 (which is specifically designed for distance and power) LOST to the Orvis Helios D at every single distance category... Let that sink in. While also spanking the Salt R8 and Winston Air 2 Max (I object to 12th place for this rod, it should be a bit higher but either way it's not looking great for an already failing company). Who is even buying these other rods at this point? I already told you for years in my reviews, and now Yellow Dog told you too.
Orvis clearly dominated this review.
Important to note: I think experts like these are a great test of what a rod is capable of, but not a very good indicator of what a typical customer is capable of achieving with those rods. I want happy customers. That comes directly from successful trips, which in turn comes from making sure they are comfortable using the gear they pick (or really what I suggest for them) and that it will work well for their skill level.
In gear reviews you have to really focus on the audience - What will matter most for the actual customers who read reviews and buy the gear and go on these Permit trips. And they usually practice only once they are actually on their trip, on the water fishing... If you feel personally attacked by this, go practice your double haul right now!
More of the Yellow Dog 9wt rod scores:
Fly Line Matters
So, this isn't as much of an issue as with the 8wt comparison, but still worth noting: The one fly line they used for the entire review - SA Balance taper - is not what most people buy or use. A fantastic line in the right hands, but not the choice of the typical 9wt customer. Here's my original review of SA Magnitude BALANCE Taper from when it was released. It is the newest saltwater line at the time I am writing this. Worth noting it was specifically developed in collaboration with Nathaniel Linville (one of the three experts in this Yellow Dog review) and they state they exclusively used this line to test all of the rods. That's very good for consistency. Due to my recent review, it's the line currently on one of my 9wt setups with my personal Helios D 9wt in fact, but I like other options too and as I say all the time "I am not my customers" - That's what my whole meta review is really about. It's a great line, don't misunderstand. Nobody buys it. In complete fairness nobody really buys Infinity Salt either, at least not from me. Everyone always buys SA Grand Slam or Bonefish PLUS 9wt along with the majority of sales of 8wt lines as well. It's available in "regular" Amplitude series smooth and textured as well as Magnitude clear floating tip / full clear lines also. Lots of options.
You have to test what customers actually use and like.
As for the mid-priced segment: Where is TFO!!!??? Is any mid-priced fly rod shootout valid without TFO? The king of affordable fly rods? Come on, guys, bring a TFO Blitz and the new Moment next time. The new Orvis Recon is great of course but there are other rods in the segment worth testing and comparing (I definitely already did). They have Echo but didn't test their flagship saltwater rods either...? Just the Boost Blue.
Another huge one for customers picking fly rods that these guys entirely skipped talking about: The Warranty! Yes it definitely matters to customers, I get asked about this stuff every single day.
Fit and Finish - Mentioned a little but not ranked specifically or rated. Quality is a big deal, and it does somewhat vary. Part of this is price point, but again I'm kind of surprised they wouldn't want to rate this aspect of the fly rods, something I typically mention along with overall build quality, value for dollar, and warranty.
They skipped aesthetics (with the completely reasonable goal of focusing on performance, to be fair). But my experience in selling saltwater rods is extensive and let's face it: Looks are how many customers choose rods. That's the reality. You have to know the customer often cares about this factor. Many people simply don't care how good the Helios is, they won't buy it because of the little bit of white on it. Cry me a river, but it's absolutely true. Looks matter to customers. Often more than some of them will even admit. Another customer of mine loves the way the Scott Sector casts "but it's so ugly" - Ok I personally find raw carbon fiber incredibly sexy but whatever man, you like what you like. You know it's good but you won't buy it, that means it isn't really about performance then, is it?
You have to test what customers actually use and like. I approach everything from that perspective. What would my customers do, what would they like, how would they benefit from this gear? What's going to make their trip successful and easier for them to enjoy? Well in this case shorter leaders and shorter heads on fly lines are far easier to cast well. I could entirely change the results of this whole review by switching out the fly lines. Heavier lines? Suddenly the T&T Exocett 88 and probably also the Power R8 would move up the rankings. Lighter lines? The Scott Sector would easily be on par with the Helios and the Hardy Marksman Z, probably those three right at the top. Phenomenal 8wt rods when paired with a nice proper Bonefish fly line.
I always focus on customers and not what pros think of a fly rod. Considering what a fly rod (and line) will be like for the actual end user is most important. I base everything around the average customer, not the experts with world records in fly fishing. Why? Because while I actually do equip a few fly fishing world record holders (one of my customers actually holds two world records for Redfish on the fly), there's really not much I need to tell him that he doesn't already know. I am not going to tell my readers that I am "better at fly fishing" than these experts. But I am happy to tell you how much better I am at knowing the typical customer profile and tailoring my advice to that person. If I was selling to pros then my reviews might focus on other aspects but I have to make sure the average caster (beginner to intermediate level of proficiency) can benefit from gear I suggest.
I am all about my customers and whatever would help them the most. If you have questions or feedback or anything you want to ask, feel free to contact me. I don't check comments on the blog too often but you can leave them below if you want.
*P.S. Some notable brand names lower down this review list... You can't help but notice... Given that plus my own recent negative experiences with their new management really makes me question the viability of these companies... Yikes. Really falling off. Even the guys at Yellow Dog won't help them out.
1 comment
While I live in the Northwest – and my salt water fishing is restricted to salmonoids, I follow your blog for your honest and open discussion – when you discuss the rod makers, the issues are the same no matter the rod model.
Sure seems to me that any of them that living on reputation alone are going to find tough going with the economic conditions that seem to be heading our way. Best of luck to you and your business.